Addendum: Ah, I love the smell of hate mail in the morning. To those commenters who’ve posted constructive criticisms below, thanks for your input and corrections. (Those who didn’t comment constructively, you may have noticed, have disappeared. Poof!) I’m more than willing to admit I have a lot to learn when it comes to the intertextuality of the Fallout and Bioshock series. It seems Bioshock may have in fact been “ripping” off the earlier Fallout games with its aesthetic and narrative approach, and not the other way around. With that said, I still think there’s room to discuss the dialogue that’s taking place between the two franchises. I look forward to playing Fallout I and II and reporting back with a more informed analysis in the future.
Today at The Penny Arcade Expo I was lucky enough to join the thousands of other easily excited fanboys and girls for a big screen demo of Fallout 3. Unlike every other journalist I’ve talked to here, I wasn’t psyched for Fallout 3 before arriving, and I didn’t make an appointment to play it on the expo floor. In general, when a game gets a lot of hype, I get less likely to check it out — not more. Call me cynical, because I probably am. My point is, after seeing the Fallout 3 demo, this grumpy old reviewer has been both annoyed and intrigued.
It’s pretty obvious the game is ripping off Bioshock. Send me hate mail if you must, but first let’s look at the comparison. Bioshock was a shooter with RPG elements that took place in a post-apocalyptic dystopia. Fallout 3 is, yeah, just that. Bioshock achieved stunning visuals and environments by juxtaposing desolation and destruction with a campy, retro aesthetic in its posters, radio broadcasts, and items around the city of Rapture. Fallout 3… Well have you seen vault boy? (We’re not even getting into the nit-picky, interesting comparisons, like how Bioshock’s world is defined by having too much water, while the Fallout 3 landscape seems defined by its lack.)
As frustrating as it is to see one game rip off another, it’s hard to stay annoyed at Fallout 3 for long — because, frankly, the game looks awesome. The crowd here at PAX, perpetually entertained by explosions, cheered whenever someone’s head got blown off. Personally I could do without all the fighting in this shooter. Seriously, forget the guns, forget the enemies, and make this world simply explorable. For the first few minutes of the demo, when the audience was free to admire the eerie landscape and the bizarre, radioactive towns, the game’s fiction was really fascinating — and fun. Radioactive cola, anyone?
To simplify: Fallout 3: cool. Fighting: a boring, old-fashioned gameplay mechanic that’s holding this creative project back. The real star of this game: it’s awesome fiction and art design. Me: strangely psyched.
Bonnie Ruberg is a sex, technology, and video games journalist who contributes regularly to publications like The Economist, Forbes, and The Village Voice. By day she's also a comparative literature PhD student at UC Berkeley, where she studies French, English, gender, sexuality, surrealism and perversion. You can reach her at [her first name and last name, all one big word] AT gmail DOT com.
August 31st, 2008 at 12:23 am
Excepting the shooter mechanics, does this mean that Bioshock was also ripping off the campy, retro aesthetic of the previous Fallout games?
Are we going to get even more intertextual as the gaming libraries expand? Or, will it just be ripping each other off and seeing what actually works…
Can’t wait to try the game, though I expected violence from it due to its previous titles.
Maybe in the next game by Bethesda we can try something new? (I did just laugh at myself, sadly.)
August 31st, 2008 at 1:15 am
Yeah, count me in on ‘it’s nuts to complain about Fallout 3 ripping off the campy retro vs. desolation vibe from BioShock when it’s ripping it off from Fallout 1/2′.
August 31st, 2008 at 1:20 am
I must echo Denis’ sentiment about Fallout 3′s aesthetic being reverse-engineered from Bioshock’s reinterpretation of Fallout 1-2.
That said, I think your idea of a completely pacifistic Fallout game is utterly fantastic. My favorite parts of the previous games were the pickpocketing, dialogue, and ruined cityscapes. Combat is assumed in the genre, but wouldn’t it be great if we could have an RPG without it that didn’t turn into a point-and-click adventure? A game where you level up your persuasiveness, sneakiness, and cunning to the exclusion of your ability to shoot/punch would be a breath of fresh air.
August 31st, 2008 at 4:35 pm
The Pip Boy’s a bad example as, unless Ken Levine is very sneaky (and has access to a time machine), it’s been around since the first one. As the name suggests, there were two games before Fallout 3 and a lot of the aesthetics existed in them too (albeit in 2D).
As for non-combat. Tranny touches on it briefly. You could play through the entirety of Fallout and barely even notice the fighting. You could level up speech and trading and lock picking, you could convince the last boss to kill himself or you could even beat the game without even entering his room. Fallout 2 is a little less open (sometimes due to some pretty awful bugs), but it’s still got a ton of free-form goodness. I don’t know if Bethseda’s gonna pick up on this, I hope they do, but the history’s there.
August 31st, 2008 at 5:16 pm
And let me say that before Bioshock S.TA.L.K.E.R. already was a shooter with RPG elements and thus Bioshock ripped that game off first.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:34 am
Well why not go back even further? Deus Ex? How about System Shock, spiritual predecessor to Bioshock? These ideas are out there, and have been for a long time, you gotta be careful when you say who’s ripping off who. In most cases, I wanna give ‘em the benefit of the doubt.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:04 am
Yeah, it’s really not fair to complain about one game ripping off the tone and style from another when the game in question is the latest in a series which all had that same tone and style. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Fallout series? I would strongly recommend playing through both the previous games; you can probably find them in a bargain bin somewhere, and they would give you some valuable backstory for the coming Fallout 3.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:47 am
Fallout 3 has been in full swing development since Oblivion shipped in 2006, and it was in preproduction long before that, when all the concept art and design occurred. This is well before anyone saw anything about Bioshock. Couple that with the fact that as others have pointed out, Fallout 3 follows the aesthetic and milieu of the original Fallout games, the first of which was released in 1996, and it should be clear to everyone how incorrect you are.
Bioshock’s aesthetic was clearly inspired by the same things that inspired the original Fallout games, if not those games themselves, so if anything Bioshock “ripped off” Fallout, whereas Fallout 3 is simply continuing with the aesthetic of the series itself.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:56 am
timeline fail
September 1st, 2008 at 7:12 am
Who ripped from who, Fallout series is now a decade old, and Bioshock ripped stuff in order to create new experiance. Fallout 3 is trying to catch with F1 and F2, there is absolutely no interest in ripping from a game that ripped from the first game in the series.
Please, next time make sure that the credit goes to the game that deserves it
September 1st, 2008 at 10:18 am
Good lord. Please do your research before you claim a game is ripping off another game. It’s called Fallout 1 and 2!
September 1st, 2008 at 11:52 am
Fallout 1 and 2 were not shooters with RPG elements, but full-fledged turn-based RPGs, but the post-apocalyptic dystopian setting with campy 50s vibe and the Vault Boy all come from there – a series 10 years older than Bioshock.
And, if anything, the gameplay style is more like the FPP RPG The Elder Scrolls games that Bethesda made before they bought the rights to Fallout than like BioShock. And The Elder Scrolls series is as old as BioShock’s predecessor, System Shock.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am
7/10
September 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
You would’ve thought that the ’3′ might be a giveaway as the game being a sequel (although loosely – lol). You can easily tell that BioShock artwork was inspired by the Fallout series games styles, although in the beginning BioShock was going to be a frozen Nazi lab experiment gone horribly wrong…
September 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Damn it was actually a tropical island (still have Crysis on the brain)…
September 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
lol she doesnt mention that it happens to fallout 3!!!! not one, or 2..
“Well have you seen vault boy? ”
Yes , I think I saw him for the first time in 1993.
“We’re not even getting into the nit-picky, interesting comparisons, like how Bioshock’s world is defined by having too much water, while the Fallout 3 landscape seems defined by its lack.”
Like in fallout 1 and 2….
lol. I thought she was talkin about a specific scene in the game when i saw the title. lololololol
I guess she is proof positive that Women don’t know anything about video games.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Man you guys check out Super Mario Galaxy? Totally ripped off Jak and Daxter.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
You seem a bit confused. Fallout 1 and 2 came way before Bioshock, and they already had that atmosphere and attitude that you claim Bethesda ripped off from Bioshock with Fallout 3. Actually, it’s the other way around. If anyone ripped anyone off, then it was BioShock who ripped off Fallout 1 and 2 (InterPlay), and I dont even think that was the case. Taking inspiration from another game is not ripping it off.
I honsetly do not believe Bethesda ripped off BioShock. If you would know the history of the company (Bethesda) and what kind of games they are used to making, and also the history of the fallout games, then you might have been able to write a more enlightened article about this.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:20 pm
This writer clearly has not played, or even seen, Fallout 1 and 2. Fallout 3 is in no way ripping off Bioshock. The retro-sci-fi setting and camp in the original games provided a lot of inspiration when it comes to Bioshock.
Next time you decide to make baseless irrational proclamations, please at least do some research.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
It’s probably been said a billion times in the posts below mine, but Fallout came before Bioshock.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
The problem with saying Fallout 3 was based off bioshock is that bioshock was based off fallout 1 and 2 with first person shooter additions. Thus Fallout 3 is based on fallout 1 and 2 not bioshock. In addition Fallout 3 was in development far sooner than bioshock was even talked about. Not hating just getting facts straight.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Yeah… I know a lot of people have said something similar, but it hardly seems fair to say FO3 is ripping off Bioshock, when the first time I saw a friend play Bioshock I said “Wow, it looks a lot like the Fallout world,” and that was months before I even heard about FO3. Fallout 1 came out in ’98. When did Bioshock come out?
September 1st, 2008 at 3:52 pm
As fishrobe and others above me point out, the Fallout franchise was sporting this retro post-apocalypse look long before Bioshock was released. Fallout 1 was released in 1997, a decade before Bioshock was. Drawing parallels between the Fallout and Bioshock worlds is a valid endeavor, but you’re going about it backwards. I think you should have considered the presence of the number “3″ in Fallout 3′s title before writing this article. Next time, check your facts.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
This whole line of discussion is absurd. Bioshock and Fallout 3 have nothing to do with each other besides a common ancestor.
One game released in 1994 – no, that’s not a typo – invented the FPS/RPG hybrid while some of you were still in diapers. Nearly every gameplay element you can find in Bioshock originated in it, or in its 1998 sequel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_shock
This should surprise no one, since many of the same developers of Bioshock worked on these originals. It’s also where they got the name. The lead designers intended it to be a “spiritual successor” to System Shock 2.
It’s called “research,” kids. It also helps being Old School.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
You actually wrote for all the magazines you listed on your website and yet make such a big blunder and a fool of yourself. Tsk, tsk, Bethesda is doing a fine job pissing the old fans of Fallout already by spoiling the sequel. You didn’t have to spend the extra effort to piss us just a little more…
September 1st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
About 25 people have already said this, but FO3 can’t be ripping off Bioshock’s style since the Fallout series had the same look long before Bioshock was conceptualized. I really wish you would have at least questioned why this game has a number in its title before going around saying it’s ripping off another game.
That said, your point about forgetting the guns is completely valid. One of the things that made FO2 so interesting was the ability to beat the game without killing anyone or anything, including the big bad end game boss. The fact that Bethesda adopted the first-person view for FO3 shows you something about their thoughts on in-game violence.
September 1st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
unless i just came from some crazy alternate reality, fallout 1 and 2 took place in retro ’50s style post-apocalypse worlds. geez, do the math, woman.
September 1st, 2008 at 4:26 pm
“One game released in 1994 – no, that’s not a typo – invented the FPS/RPG hybrid while some of you were still in diapers. Nearly every gameplay element you can find in Bioshock originated in it, or in its 1998 sequel.”
System Shock is not an ancestor to Fallout 3. The Elder Scrolls: Arena came out in the same year System Shock did and Fallout 3 is pretty clearly based on the gameplay of Elder Scrolls instead of the previous Fallout games. If anything, both Elder Scrolls and System Shock (and thus both Fallout 3 and BioShock) are descendants of Ultima Underworld:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld
September 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
10 echo timeline fail
20 goto 10
September 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Smoke: At least those guys realized what the ’3′ in Fallout 3 seems to mean.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Fallout 3
Bioshock 1
Epic Failiure
September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
You know that Fallout 1 was released in 1997 and Bioshock in 2008 right?
So I’m just saying that maybe Fallout did the whole retro-future 50′s super science thing first.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
It’s like saying that Dawn of War ripped off StarCraft’s setting.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Good point, Ausir. I forgot all about UU. Touche.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm
By the way, sexist comments are neither helpful nor accurate. Those of you who indulge in them betray an immaturity and ignorance all out of proportion to Ms. Ruberg’s understandable error. Really, it seems to have been no more than an off-the-cuff remark made on returning from an exhausting weekend of sensory overload.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Hi,
I followed a few links and read your article.
I’ll save you the time of explaining how Fallout 1 and 2′s retro-industrial chic came about a decade before Bioshock, as I’m sure you’ve now extensively researched all the information that you should have had prior to reading the article.
Likewise, I’ll save myself the time of writing a longwinded diatribe against your ability to hold down a professional position as a gaming journalist with so little competence and the syntax and diction of a high school newspaper writer to simply call you a blithering, worthless idiot instead.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Bioshock is a shooter with RP elements in a steampunk-ish Art Deco setting. Fallout 3 is an RPG with shooter elements in a Golden-Age-SciFi-gone-apocalyptically-wrong setting. Totally the same!…
Wait, not?
You couldn’t say any of them ripped the other series off. So, peace on this planet now? ^_^
September 1st, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Leucippus, it’s an understandable mistake for a random gamer who doesn’t have much interest in the RPG genre to make, not a professional journalist. It’s similar to a movie critic saying that “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” is ripping off “The Matrix”‘s wire-fo action sequences.
ElectricSheep, actually that’s not much worse than par for the course as far as gaming “journalists” go, unfortunate as that is.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:36 pm
I agree with the general consensus. If Fallout 3 was the first title in the series, and not part of a long running series of games, this article would sort of make sense. But with things as they are (referring to the “3″ in the title “Fallout 3″), this article is, well, lulz.
Seriously, though… it’s like saying, “HEY! MGS2 ripped off Winback: Covert Operations, if we ignore the existence of MGS1! OMG!” If we ignore the existence of FO and FO2, however, your article will also make sense.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Time-line fail – yes.
I played Fallout 1 and 2 and will play 3.
heroine-sheik has a point regarding Bioshock.
I would say Bioshock played a part motivating Bethesda in parting from isometric to first person. It ripped off earlier fallouts and mutated it with some success.
Although I would say Bethesda was mainly be motivated by Bethesda’s Morrowind series.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Well, Fallout 3 is ripping off Bioshock in the sense that it is also a dumbed down (spiritual) sequel.
How did you get an advance copy of the game?
September 1st, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Sorry to be flogging a dead horse but there have even been reviewers who have made the comment you made about fallout about bioshock in his review of bioshock yahtzee mentions that in his eyes bioshock is blatantly ripping off fallout. I don’t agree with either position retro 50′s and distopian dreams are featured in all gamer sex dreams so naturally games go that way.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:48 pm
It’s been clearly proven that she was wrong. But some of you dude’s need to shape up your atitude and your people skills.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Umm, yeah, It really warms my heart to see that gamerdom has become a refuge for the misogynists. Seriously guys, fucking grow up.
We get it, women take one look at you and see a horrible, horrible monstrosity so you’ve dedicated a portion of your hate-filled existence into jumping at every chance to attack someone based on your own pathetic failure at life.
That said, she totally failed at a portion of her research. Live and learn. Hopefully you haters will grow the hell up and learn yourselves rather than continue on like a bunch of whiny brats mommy won’t let live in her basement anymore.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I think you touched a very raw nerve Bonnie.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:19 pm
This “story” was presented in an unprofessional manner with only what appears to be no prior knowledge to the history of fallout to back up these sensationalist claims. In a big part this blog writer, journalist (whatever she prefers to be known as) has made a complete jackass of herself and has made a further mockery of what she does.
I also really don’t care much for your neutral commentary of the game looking pretty, that’s an obvious given for this day and age of gaming in the industry, though I’m no gun nut myself but seriously do the math… a post apocalyptic wasteland, violent radioactive mutants (don’t get me started on the beastly deathclaws, play the old fallouts and you might learn something), people scavenging for what they can to survive, I’d say in a ‘realistic’ sense chances of survival without a weapon would be quite slim, so your fantasy of a hippie green post apocalyptic world is a ridiculous idea although is dull and possible. Even if you were to remove all the mutants, and just keep Human beings they tend to go sour at the best of times and become enemies to a extreme and minamal extent.
Now remove this garbage from your blog, saving yourself and the readers from the already embarrassing pity or hate that is felt towards you right now.
P.S Go read up on the earlier stages of the COLD WAR.
Yours Sincerely,
Pissed off Fallout Fragmaster Nerd semi fanboy di**head Douche.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Oh and to the people that defend such incompetence, you need get your lips away from that rear end. Just because she’s a woman she doesn’t need to be treated any more or less different if she were a man, the predecessors wanted equal rights well you’ve got em.
Yours Sincerely,
Pissed off Fallout Fragmaster Nerd semi fanboy di**head Douche.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Ignorance is bliss, ain’t it?
September 1st, 2008 at 11:32 pm
@ Bonnie Ruberg
Live and learn indeed. Please do your research before posting about anything on blogs. I obviously don’t need type your mistake on with this blog.
Don’t let the sexist and rude comments get to you though.
It’s the internet. You need to know that people will type awful things to anyone. I would suggest removing this post and move on with your life. There are tons of other games to review.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:52 pm
You must remember that if Bioshock ripped any game off, that would be Systemshock. The originial Systemshock was released circa 1994, and featured the player as a hacker fighting against an AI know as Shodan. Bioshock was deemed the spiritual sucessor of this remarkable game. It had all the rpg elements Bioshock had, and more. The main thing that identifies Bioshock, and both Systemshocks is the plot twist that the one that guides you through the game ends up being the ultimate villain.
Fallout is a totally different beast. You must see that the Fallout series was made around 1996, and it truly ressurected rpgs in the PC. It has absolutely nothing to do with Systemshock, by then the only thing that could resemble Bioshock. One took place in a space station, the other in a would-be future based on the expectations people had back in the 50s about the future.
To say that nowadays Fallout 3 is ripping off Bioshock because of the 1st person view is a gross mistake. Since Fallout is now property of Bethesda, it deemed better to make the game in a way more familiar to them, namely the 1st person view, as seen in Oblivion and Morrowind.
I’m sorry, but you are completely wrong.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 am
Bioshock was created by the same team that did System Shock. So therefore Bioshock is pretty much an expanded System Shock or a System Shock in a totally different universe. Comparing Fallout 3 to Bioshock is ludicrous, especially when the Fallout series has been around for a decade now, if not a bit more. The only difference is that it’s an FPS now and that wouldn’t really be ripping off Bioshock either. Especially since the FPS genre is usually the best genre to go after when you want the player to feel like they’re in the character’s shoes. All in all, you should probably do some research before making such ridiculous assumptions.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 am
FAIL x 2
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 am
Another comment here and there.
Fallout 3 could little be benefited by Bioshock.
As all the Fallout Lore is out there on the Net for you to browse, you would see that Bethesda wouldn’t need to do such.
As for Copying items from Bioshock itself, for it’s RPG elements or it’s First Person area of sight. There is a Very Long and Extensive list of other games that Bioshock has copied from, as Fallout 3 is perhaps given birth by things such as Wizardry.
Bethesda did create Oblivion, Morrowind and others already. So they have the Three dimensional foothold within the games industry.
The blatant push towards the fact that Vault Boy was copied from anything Bioshock made. Is an Insult to every Fallout Fan upon the Internet. As the Fallout lore depicts the Character from the First Game in 1997.
Then you look at Bioshock, which is a Carbon Copy of SystemShock… has stolen many ideas off of much more games. In itself is not open roleplay, because there are only two paths to play.
Fallout, Fallout 2 and now Fallout 3. They will be remembered as Unique due to their predecessors and the Ideas they have spread throughout the gaming world. If you needed to Argue any point, it would be that Bioshock was the one who stole ideas from Fallout, Social Experiments, Enclosed Environment, Mutagens all accounted for.
Please do some Research upon a Games Franchise before you State anything as Cold Fact, where Fact is but your own Opinion.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 am
Seriously, I just have to say, do research next time. Seriously, if you have any sense of journalistic aspirations, when you see a number next to the title, that should sort of give a little bit of a hint that maybe there’s something more to it than the game being self-contained in-of-itself, completely new. It should’ve been a big give away that maybe there could’ve of been a Fallout that existed before Bioshock.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:21 am
Asking for the hate mail was a bad move considering the claim of saying Fallout 3 is ripping off bioshock, when its already clear that Fallout was already a rip off from a old game called Wasteland if I recall, and it happily took the setting and made it its own. Bioshock itself is not even its own original game, if you don’t beleive me play System Shock 2.
People put they’re feet in ones mouth every day but you literally shoved both shoes in then asked a friend if he was gonna finish his.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:50 am
I have a hard time seing how the rpg/shooter is a ripoff from Bioshock considering the previous games from Bethesda, if anything both systemshock and Bioshock were inspired by the elderscroll series.
As for the post-apocalyptic dystopia part, heh, well you actually have a poin there. I get the notion of it at least, we’ll have to wait and see if the rich excentric guy in the hotel is more of a side kick or not – but granted – this part does resemble the plot in Bioshock much more so than anything in the previous Fallout games.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:45 am
Are people on the internet this dumb. I’m not talking about the article writter but the guys answering with “fallout has a 3 in front of fallout so it must be a fallout sequel”. Yay so if i make a manga porno game in a post apocalyptic world and call it Fallout with a 3 in front of it becomes a Fallout sequel and an honest successor to the sequels and NOT a post-apocalyptic manga porno game. You guys should get your heads checked by a doctor to see if there is a brain inside.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:52 am
Manga eh? Well, put a vault suit in, vault boy, old NPCs including Dogmeat and it it’s a faithful sequel alright!
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 am
Too true. Fallout 3 is “ripping off” Bioshock to an alarming degree, not to mention that it’s being done badly; with slow-mo cam, stats/skills and Oblivionesque quest system. These things stand in the way of good fps gameplay, and a lackluster fps with rpg elements can’t turn out as a decent rpg. Now, I’m o.k with it ripping into the Bioshock premise, while at the same time maintaining a few hints towards the canonized Fallout universe, but the idea of getting a product that doesn’t do well in either genre (fps/rpg) is hardly worth the hype, or the praise, it has recieved so far.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:46 am
@St. Toxic
Even if Fallout 3 has some BioShock influences, most of the ones Heroine Sheik claims are ones have been part of the Fallout series since 1997. And I doubt that the FPS/RPG hybridization was in any way influenced by BioShock – it’s pretty much based on The Elder Scrolls, which is as old as System Shock.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
Ok firstly, as said, you failed to do you’re research, and made you’reself look completely stupid.
Bioshock was clearly influenced by Fallout, note, there is a difference between influenced and rip off. The fact that bethsuda decided to go 1st person when they bought the rights to the series, is purley because that’s all they have done for the last 15 years.
Thirdly, you are interested in this game because it “looks cool”. Has someone replaced game journo brains with cat brains, cus you all seem to go OHHH and AAHHH at pretty colours far to easily.
Cheering at explosions and headshots, dear oh dear, i shall be mailing you a pretty string on a stick for you to OHHH and AHHH at, enjoy.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
Wow, way to set the women’s rights movement back 50 years. It’s obvious you’re not a gamer. It more obvious you’re not a journalist, because even a reporter for a high school newsletter would have done a little research to discover the motif, style and atmosphere was taken DIRECTLY from the previous Fallout games.
Shall we focus on the differences between Bioshock and Fallout3? Fallout 3 is a true sandbox game, Bioshock isn’t. (Go look up the definition of ‘sandbox game’, as I’m sure you have no clue what that means..) Bioshock has genetically enhanced powers, Fallout does not. Bioshock has child-killing, Fallout will not. Bioshock is set in the past, Fallout set in an alternate future with retro theme. Shall I go on?
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:01 am
“Fallout 3 is a true sandbox game”
quê?
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
We’re not all ignorant. Some of us know all about the Fallout universe and would not have been so lax as to not do a little research on the subject if we did not. Thanks for making the male gaming population think the rest of us are stupid. What did you think the 3 at the end meant?
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am
Everyone is right. You’ve a right to your opinion, but your opinion is obviously based off of a serious lack of facts. The creators of Bioshock have admitted in interviews that the first two Fallout games played a role in inspiration for their game. And Fallout 3 is simply a continuation of the Fallout series which began in 1997, a full decade before Bioshock. Therefore Bioshock is a rip off of Fallout 3 if nothing else. Fallout and it’s predecessor Wasteland were the original post apoc RPGs.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
Hey boys, can you take gender out of it? It’s a poorly written, un-researched psuedo-review that *happens* to be written by a woman who doesn’t appear to be well versed in various games. A guy could have written just as half-assed a review – amirite?
There are plenty of women gamers (zomg! no wimminz on teh internets!1!!!) who are perfectly capable of talking about FO1 & 2 compared to FO3 and not trying to make up ridiculous comparisons to other games for the sake of an attention grabbing article…
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 am
Your insulting the two games, the fans and the developers of both games series, how can you come that Fallout “3″ is a rip off of Bioshock a new game that was release in 2007, when clearly Fallout 1 (release in 1997, a sequel to a game called “Wasteland” wich it was release in 1988) and Fallout 2 (wich came a year after the first one) are the first games that came out with the post-apocalyptic theme?
Even in the interviews with Ken Levine (Creative Director of 2K Boston) he stated that they took the inspiration from previous fallout games and made the artistic look of Bioshock.
Being completly differente games, it cant be said that Fallout 3 is a rip off, Both game mechanics are diferent, they both use diferent systems, Fallout 3 is an RPG stats based and Bioshock is and FPS with few elements of RPG.
Rip off its entirely copying or imitating other things like jokes, software, music and such. Like LOTRO or Warhammer Online, those games are rip off from WoW.
Really do some research before posting an article wich may be an insult to fans of the series like me (Bioshock, Fallout), and i suggest you to change the article before more people rant on you.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
“Rip off its entirely copying or imitating other things like jokes, software, music and such. Like LOTRO or Warhammer Online, those games are rip off from WoW.”
Well, Warcraft started as a Warhammer rip-off, so it’s only fair.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
“Well, Warcraft started as a Warhammer rip-off, so it’s only fair”
Yeah warcraft started as a rip off of Warhammer then came World of Warcraft and LOTRO later wich is a rip off then Warhammer Online the riped off rip off xD
lol.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Shut your trap, Ausir. It’s still a rip-off of Bioshock. You cannot compare Fallout 3 to either Daggerfall or any other real TES game, simply because it has gone beyond the genre of rpg’s into the world of fps’s with stat bonuses.
Here’s a direct quote:
“Bioshock was a shooter with RPG elements that took place in a post-apocalyptic dystopia. Fallout 3 is, yeah, just that.”
Were Fallout 1 and 2 shooters with RPG elements? Did Bioshock rip them off? Please. What we have is a merger of the TES series with the gameplay design of the SS series (which in this scenario includes Bioshock) with the addition of a Falloutish setting in the latest installment.
“Campy” settings are hardly novel to any genre, and lack of water in a retro wasteland, in comparison to an underwater facility? I’ll give you people credit for that; these are hardly “GASP!” breath-taking discoveries, and make Sheik sound like an idiot, but the fact that TES, and specifically Fallout 3, have given the SS series jelous glances over the years is unmistakable. Wether she realized it or not, she’s stumbled over something that is an original frame of thought, and may be fully accurate.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Sure, half of the people making those comments might be your standard misogynistic internet nerds who actually don’t like women/think they suck at games. But the other half is just making fun of her specifically with the sexism.
“Hey boys, can you take gender out of it? It’s a poorly written, un-researched psuedo-review that *happens* to be written by a woman who doesn’t appear to be well versed in various games.”
Specifically written by a woman on a “GRRL GAMER” blog, where gender is heavily emphasized. Hence why it’s kind of humorous to jokingly say she set the women’s right movement back from her stupid post. In other words, if you’re female and being upset by any of those, take them with a grain of salt.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
No, it’s not right.
The artistic style is fallout, as for the gameplay….
The TES series has been first person for something like 15 years, when they acquired the Fallout license, guess what, they made it a first person game, and somehow sold to the press that sticking to the same thing they have ever done is INNOVASHUN!!
Inevitably it means it’s comparable to Bioshock, but by coincidence, it’s stretching things a little to try and claim it’s a ripoff.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Mr. Facepalm,
The TES series has run parallel with the SS series, and while one has maintained the general gameplay and style of the franchise (to a reasonable extent, in any case), the other one has constantly been moving towards lamely mimicking aspects of the former, in favor of previously established and near canonized elements of the franchise.
Can you say, without any doubt, that these similar series have not had an influence on each other? More specifically, that one has influenced the other into changing?
Are you a communist?
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
instead of venting more sexist abuse here’s my 2 constructive cents
Please do another article and give the title the merit it deserves, if any
“errare humanum est perseverare diabolicum”
to err is human; to persist is of the Devil
Oh and about the ridiculousManga Porn Game post: Who knows what was in the 100+ Cat’s Paw magazines scattered throughout fallout1&2 ;)
September 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
All video games rip off Chauvet cave’s Megaloceros Gallery.
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Hurry up and Edit the Article and add “Edit: I’m an idiot” To the end.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
“Bioshock was a shooter with RPG elements that took place in a post-apocalyptic dystopia. Fallout 3 is, yeah, just that.”
This is true. Severe lack of research though. If anything, as has been said prior by various angry people, Bioshock ripped off Fallout. Of course, the main thing Bioshock was ripping off was System Shock, it’s “spiritual predecessor”. And Fallout ripped off Wasteland, a game I very much doubt you’ve heard of, no offence. But hey, if you’re less inclined towards combat and more inclined to…The Sims, lets say; there’ll be a house in FO3, one that you can decorate. Thrilling, no? Fallout doesn’t appeal to me solely due to the violence either, it’s more about the freedom, the choice and consequence, the dialogue. That’s the main part I’m hoping Bethesda get right.
PS. Nuka Cola is not radioactive cola. Space hoppers do not come from space.
PPS. I agree with the guy before me. Such an edit may pacify the masses, slightly.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Responding to a post from earlier, it’s actually quite possible to play both Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 totally passively (as in, not killing or harming anyone). I’ve done it a couple times, and I’m currently trying to do it without dying even once.
Just consider it: what REQUIRED parts of Fallout 1/2 really necessitate combat? You can just run from random encounters, and the game is great about providing either stealth or speech approaches to many quests. With the quests that don’t have such an option…just skip them. It’s fun!
Also, Ruberg, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If I produced an article or official opinion of this quality at my job I would be fired instantly, and the long-term impact on my career would be disastrous. I’ll stop short of calling you stupid, but the sheer irresponsibility you showed with this train wreck of an article is inexcusable.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“Shut your trap, Ausir. It’s still a rip-off of Bioshock. You cannot compare Fallout 3 to either Daggerfall or any other real TES game, simply because it has gone beyond the genre of rpg’s into the world of fps’s with stat bonuses.”
How about Oblvion? Level didn’t matter (the entire world was scaled to you), stats didn’t matter (again, level scaling) for anything other than getting new abilities (which plenty of games not claiming to be RPGs do), and equipment was marginalized at best (you were always using stuff at least as good as your enemies).
“Can you say, without any doubt, that these similar series have not had an influence on each other? More specifically, that one has influenced the other into changing?”
Actually, according to the Bethesda devs games like GTA, Halo, and Call of Duty have been most influential. Some have since mentioned their liking of Bioshock but keep in mind that Bioshock was released after Fallout 3 had been in developement for three years.
Did the TES games and SS games draw from eachother? Quite possibly but they both “riped-off” Ultima Underworld.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
[...] example, in the gaming world, came to mind this week on Bonnie Ruberg’s Heroine Sheik. In her write-up of the Fallout 3 demo at the Penny Arcade Expo, Ruberg made a few comments that were inaccurate – like, saying that Fallout 3 ripped off BioShock, [...]
September 4th, 2008 at 6:44 am
why, must you say such controversial things, bonnie D: why?
September 4th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
D:<
September 4th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
See? Was that so hard? :U
September 4th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Ah, now see, that what you should’ve done in the first place. Just come out and admit that you kinda misplaced something.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Bah, need I remind you that Fallout was there in form of “Wasteland” already in 1988 that’s 6 years before System Shock, never mind that there were 4 Fallout games before any one anywhere even seen Bioshock -.-
September 6th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Wow… wasn’t really going to read through all these comments but i guess i managed about most of them.
It’s a shame that so many people have a hard time distinguishing a personal blog post from a paid-for/professional article on a website. Not to mention that it was already noted that it was an off-the-cuff comment at best. No ‘research’ is needed for an opinion, however uninformed otherwise you guys need to get on over to blogspot/you-tube/myspace/etc and get out your vitriolic dictionary so you can ‘correct’ everyone’s misguided viewpoints.
There have been many people here saying that she’s a disgrace to women or to gamers or even to women gamers… so let me get this straight: making a mistake or not knowing something is a disgrace but acting like a psychotic ass is not? I guess society really is going to hell…. must be these video games.
Whatever happened to people being able to know that not everyone is omnipotent? What happened to common decency and thought towards other people and their feelings. One comment would have been enough to inform Bonnie of her mistake but of course each and every person after that decided that their own take on that initial post was worth it because they’re important… right? She spmehow slighted everyone in this comments thread, right?
I’ll never get this mentality. It’s not like she was down on the game or anything…
September 16th, 2008 at 8:47 am
http://tinyurl.com/2s6eep
September 16th, 2008 at 8:51 am
you can’t blog about video games without playing fallout 1 and 2. where’s your basis of comparison? the classics, woman! the classics!
drop what you’re doing and go play those games. damn.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:13 am
toasting in an epic bread
September 16th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Did you forget that Bioshock ripped of System Shock 2.
Which is better than both Bioshock and Fallout 3.
Fanboys make me lol
September 16th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Wait, don’t you shoot guns in Bioshock? Isn’t that just a rip off of Call of Duty 4?
September 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Call of Duty FOUR.
Where you shoot people in IRAQ.
Metal Gear Solid FOUR.
Where you tranquilize people in Iraq.
Talk about ripoffs!
September 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Metal GEAR?
More like metal GEARS OF WAR
wtf am i the only one woh noticed this?
October 30th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Hello Fellow Ramblers….
Boys Boyz Bouys – you guys obviously know your stuff, and if you were as lucky as i was to play half life, system shock, deus ex (maybe Viwtiful Joe on a COMPLETELY different note if you bought a gamecube when they were becoming obsolete just to play some old school platforming re-imagined) when they were released then what the heck are you so bitter about ?
I didnt play Fallout1 or Fallout2 on release, but regardless I have been s*itting so many bricks over Fallout 3 as I have studied its development I could build a small pointless wall at the end of my garden!
How bout you count yourself lucky that their are still people around with big enough Ca Hoo Na’s to chase their dreams (ooOOoh imto 33 not a 60 year old life coach – did i just write that ? )and be in a position to deliver yet another brilliantly realised dream and chat about how FOOKING COOL it is ?
Answers on a post-card please.
.. .. .. bear ib mind i’m quite pissed and had 3 hours sleep last night.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:02 am
Now that our Heroine recognizes Fallout 3 is no rip off of Bioshock both in feel and content, there is also another matter to address that is actually more in agreement to her original contentions than anything else.
However, Fallout 3, arguably, is not even a rip off of Bioshock’s first person shooter perspective, as she contends. In fact, being someone who has been playing the Fallout series since its inception and has played many major shooters and rpg shooters out there, if anything Fallout 3′s first person RPG set-up is highly reminiscent of the Deus Ex Games. For one, FO3′s in game user interface is strikingly similar to Deus Ex 2′s, but on the whole, I have seen its likeness in 90′s and 2000′s games like Neocron as well. This type of first person shoot-em-up RPG format is nothing new. It’s just that Fallout 3 is a big hit that it is such a hot topic of conversation.
Fallout 3 stems from a very original lineage, stretching back to Wasteland (as inspired by the Mad Max movies!). However, if there is an argument to be made for any unoriginality on its part, it could be directed at its similarity to previous FPS-RPG’s in terms of its user interface. Bioshock would be no more or less exempt from that criticism either, though I will give that particular game props on how well it pulled it off.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
[...] Summers replied, “We thought Big Daddies had more kid appeal than Vaults. And the games are kind of similar enough anyway, right?” – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Likey? sharey! [...]
June 5th, 2009 at 3:23 am
So I read the review, i read the comments… I laughed, I cried, I bought the T-Shrit.
But it seems to me that someone forgot to mention one very tiny detail… so tiny that, it may have in fact, gone unnoticed… However.. I feel like this wouldn’t be a complete rip on how Bioshock actually ripped off the fallout series, and not the other way around if I didn’t mention Bio Shock’s use of a song by The Ink Spots… and if memory serves me correctly, InterPlay used The Ink Spots in Fallout from the very first one, which is why “I Don’t Want To Set The World On Fire” is in Fallout 3…. But like i said, small detail, most likely went unnoticed by most everyone who have played all of the games in question.
June 5th, 2009 at 3:32 am
forgot to mention… they used two ink spots songs in bioshock… “if i didn’t care” and “the best things in life”. and in Fallout (1) the intro to the game uses the song “Maybe” which also appears in Fallout 3, along with “I Don’t Want to Set The World on Fire” and their song with Ella Fitzgerald “Into Each Life Some Rain Must Fall”
September 4th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Im sorry but this has to be the strangest conversation i have ever heard. Fallout 1 and 2 were created in the 90′s, that is where the style of fallout 3 came from, the game play is much like oblivion, plus i rmbr that fallout 3 was being created before oblivion 4 was even released, people are confusing the two games because of enviroment, and humour. To me the enviroment looked like a rip off from fallout, game play is just your standered fps and 3rd person, and both are great games and very different besides thier style. So enough with the pointless arguments, this topic will get you no where.
September 4th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
but then again this was a review on fallout 3 was very poorly made.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
The person that wrote this has their facts mixed up, if anything Bioshock ripped of Fallout. What he saying is on the same grounds as Warhammer ripped off World of Warcraft.
Fallout 3 was in development late 2005, early 2006.