Comments on: “I Wish I Could Poke your Little Doggy Eyes Out”: Interactivity and Sadism

By: Killing Adorable Animals: More Fun Than Intended | GeezGamer

Killing Adorable Animals: More Fun Than Intended | GeezGamer — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:30:57 +0000

[...] killed Bambi. Yes, the Bambi. I did it like 20 times. And I liked it. We’ve talked before about the role sadism plays in our enjoyment of cute games. Apparently, there’s only about thirty seconds of gameplay time between, “Oh, what an adorable [...]

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:45:53 +0000

Adorable! I got the name from a little kid’s, Strawberry Shortcake birthday card, so I won’t claim any original credit. How about you?

By: shannon

shannon — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:54:36 +0000

Awww! My real life dog’s name is Pupcake. She’s a Jack-Russell Chihuahua mix, much more fun than any computer dog!

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:43:10 +0000

Hmm, makes me think of the key chain Scott had for his car keys: “So many pedestrians, so little time” – which was funny until he was buying lunch from a girl who had recently been run down by a car…

By: MDÂ²

MDÂ² — Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:58:30 +0000

Thanks, the Death Race entry made interesting reading.

By: Brummbar

Brummbar — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:47:11 +0000

*bang*

As the resident Ancient Gamer, I should at least make one metion of Exidy’s 1976 arcade game Death Race. You know: violence, public controversy and all that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race

Also, Bonnie, I have been unable to track down the link to the Death-o-Coaster story. Alas.

By: MDÂ²

MDÂ² — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:30:24 +0000

Yup, but are you a sadist because you enjoy knowing pain has been inflicted, or because you enjoy the process of inflicting pain ? I’d say generally both. Virtual sadism allows you to get the process going without the need for a real victim and, as long as you can suspend disbelief, it is satisfaying enough I guess.

On another notice, I used “factured” instead of “charged” in my previous post.
Shoot me.

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 22:52:06 +0000

Hey Ferrous, I think you’re right both that our definitions of sadism differ, and that there isn’t just one answer here. The disagreement is the fun (and the point) :-).

By: FerrousBuller

FerrousBuller — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 18:02:38 +0000

Bonnie: obviously, I got a bit tangential from your original case of virtual puppy torture – but then, so did you with your “why demonstrate skill through violence?” question. :-)

So getting back to the original point: as you say, sadism is enjoying the pain or suffering of others. It can refer to physical and/or mental anguish; and be either active or passive (i.e., inflicting the pain yourself or simply observing it). In the case of videogame sadism, given that we know videogame animals and NPCs aren’t “real” – and thus can’t feel real pain – I think whether a particular act qualifies as sadism depends a lot on the mindset of the gamer “inflicting” it: e.g., do they view their target as a “victim” or merely an object? Do they pretend their target is actually suffering or are they merely testing the limits of the gameworld? When you build a sand castle and stomp it into oblivion, do you imagine the denizens fleeing in terror from your mighty feet or do you just like the way the sand squishes between your toes? :-)

And obviously, the answers vary from person to person. So I don’t think there’s a convenient catch-all answer to the topic of videogame sadism, beyond: “Yes, it exists, but it isn’t a cut-n-dried question to answer.” Which, of course, is why we’ve spent so much time talking about it. :-)

Some of it depends on your personal definition of sadism, too. If you think laughing at Wil E. Coyote cartoons is sadistic and I don’t (or vice versa), we’re obviously gonna disagree on where to set the bar of videogame sadism.

[All this presumes that your target is AI-controlled, not another human-controlled avatar, which changes things, obviously. E.g., IMHO, griefing is a form of bullying and bullying is inherently sadistic - usually mild, but sadistic nonetheless. But that's a tangent for another time... :-]

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:35:07 +0000

Ferrous, I understand what you’re saying about violence with another purpose – be it skill, sport, necessity – not necessarily being sadistic. I think in the cases initially described here though (of course our conversation has gone tons of other places since :-), sadism really is the purpose. You don’t need skill/sportsmanship to harm a puppy (in theory at least – in Nintendogs it’s impossible) or send sims to their death. Of course, I see your larger point that lumping all game violence (or real violence) together is a dangerous oversimplification.

Sam, I agree with you about the abstraction, and needing to work within a fiction. That brings up other questions though, like why do w, as people, want a fiction to follow? Or, on a more basic level, why, if we need a fiction, does it have to be a violent one? The same game skills – like accuracy, speed, etc. – could be tested through non-violence heuristics.