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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Games That Get Your Groove On&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: FerrousBuller</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1080</link>
		<dc:creator>FerrousBuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 21:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1080</guid>
		<description>After 3+ years, I'm pretty sure Jane's said all she has to say on the matter; so yes, this discussion is largely academic...except insofar as it serves as further proof that article hasn't left the mass gamer consciousness yet.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After 3+ years, I&#8217;m pretty sure Jane&#8217;s said all she has to say on the matter; so yes, this discussion is largely academic&#8230;except insofar as it serves as further proof that article hasn&#8217;t left the mass gamer consciousness yet.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1074</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1074</guid>
		<description>I think, for better or for worse, that by this point the community reaction has all but enveloped Jane's original intentions - whatever they may have been.  They've become what's real in the situation, especially since (to the best of my knowledge) she hasn't come out with a further comment on the topic since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think, for better or for worse, that by this point the community reaction has all but enveloped Jane&#8217;s original intentions - whatever they may have been.  They&#8217;ve become what&#8217;s real in the situation, especially since (to the best of my knowledge) she hasn&#8217;t come out with a further comment on the topic since.</p>
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		<title>By: FerrousBuller</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1071</link>
		<dc:creator>FerrousBuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1071</guid>
		<description>Disclaimer: obviously, I feel weird "lecturing" a woman about this sort of thing.  It feels extra-weird to try to second-guess someone's intentions when I don't really know him or her personally.  [Couple of polite e-mails, that's about it.]  Nevertheless, let's give this a shot.

What I find interesting about all this is how it reveals the inherent tension in American culture between the prudish and the prurient.  As you're well aware, sex is generally treated as something sinful and shameful in this country, which is part of what makes it so appealing.  Call it Original Sin Residue, if you like: the notion that our bodies are to be covered up and that sexuality is a big taboo - so naturally, we're all drawn to it, like Eve to the apple, like moths to the flame.  It's bad for us, so it must be &lt;i&gt;fun&lt;/i&gt;, right?  Fun in a way we're not supposed to be having.  What's the point of virtue if vice has no appeal?  So sex is always made to seem...well, &lt;i&gt;sexy&lt;/i&gt;: passionate couplings between fabulous-looking people - be they actors or porn stars.  Rarely if ever do we deal with the mundane realities of sex.

Jane's piece subverts all that, by being frank without being titillating; she's sharing an intimate moment with readers, but not in a way that's meant to be arousing, IMHO.  The vibe I get from Jane's piece is: yeah, this is my crotch, this is what I'm doing with it - what's the big deal?  There's something almost clinical about those pictures: it's not like she takes pictures of herself in self-consciously "sexy" poses or anything; it might as well be from a how-to manual.  She's being forthright about something we normally treat as private, as shameful, as "oh, good girls don't talk about &lt;b&gt;that&lt;/b&gt;!"

And predictably, a lot of people focus on those photos: commenting on whether she's hot or not, scolding her for being so "shameful," clucking their tongues disapprovingly, or just rolling their eyes.  But there are a certain number of readers who get the point: who look past that element and understand what she's trying to accomplish.  I hope I'm one of them.

Not that I think she was trying to set the gaming world on fire or anything.  I think she was just trying to open the floor to open discussion about such things.  She wasn't being shame&lt;i&gt;ful&lt;/i&gt; so much as shame&lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; - in the "this is nothing to be ashamed of" sense, not in the "I have no moral values" sense.

So I return to my original question: is it Jane's fault we live in a country where we can't have a frank discussion about such matters without it turning puerile?  Is it her fault an article like that takes on a life of its own because of a couple of photos?  Is it her fault we still bring it up after three years, precisely because it remains unique?  Sure, there's plenty of sex in games these days, but they've almost all focused on the "naughty titillation / sex fantasy" factor; few if any people have plumbed that particularly frank, unglamorous, straight-forward "sex + games" avenue since.

I can only guess at what Jane's original intentions were.  But I know I wish it would've catalyzed more interesting discussions on the subject; and I'm disappointed - though hardly surprised -that it didn't.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclaimer: obviously, I feel weird &#8220;lecturing&#8221; a woman about this sort of thing.  It feels extra-weird to try to second-guess someone&#8217;s intentions when I don&#8217;t really know him or her personally.  [Couple of polite e-mails, that&#8217;s about it.]  Nevertheless, let&#8217;s give this a shot.</p>
<p>What I find interesting about all this is how it reveals the inherent tension in American culture between the prudish and the prurient.  As you&#8217;re well aware, sex is generally treated as something sinful and shameful in this country, which is part of what makes it so appealing.  Call it Original Sin Residue, if you like: the notion that our bodies are to be covered up and that sexuality is a big taboo - so naturally, we&#8217;re all drawn to it, like Eve to the apple, like moths to the flame.  It&#8217;s bad for us, so it must be <i>fun</i>, right?  Fun in a way we&#8217;re not supposed to be having.  What&#8217;s the point of virtue if vice has no appeal?  So sex is always made to seem&#8230;well, <i>sexy</i>: passionate couplings between fabulous-looking people - be they actors or porn stars.  Rarely if ever do we deal with the mundane realities of sex.</p>
<p>Jane&#8217;s piece subverts all that, by being frank without being titillating; she&#8217;s sharing an intimate moment with readers, but not in a way that&#8217;s meant to be arousing, IMHO.  The vibe I get from Jane&#8217;s piece is: yeah, this is my crotch, this is what I&#8217;m doing with it - what&#8217;s the big deal?  There&#8217;s something almost clinical about those pictures: it&#8217;s not like she takes pictures of herself in self-consciously &#8220;sexy&#8221; poses or anything; it might as well be from a how-to manual.  She&#8217;s being forthright about something we normally treat as private, as shameful, as &#8220;oh, good girls don&#8217;t talk about <b>that</b>!&#8221;</p>
<p>And predictably, a lot of people focus on those photos: commenting on whether she&#8217;s hot or not, scolding her for being so &#8220;shameful,&#8221; clucking their tongues disapprovingly, or just rolling their eyes.  But there are a certain number of readers who get the point: who look past that element and understand what she&#8217;s trying to accomplish.  I hope I&#8217;m one of them.</p>
<p>Not that I think she was trying to set the gaming world on fire or anything.  I think she was just trying to open the floor to open discussion about such things.  She wasn&#8217;t being shame<i>ful</i> so much as shame<i>less</i> - in the &#8220;this is nothing to be ashamed of&#8221; sense, not in the &#8220;I have no moral values&#8221; sense.</p>
<p>So I return to my original question: is it Jane&#8217;s fault we live in a country where we can&#8217;t have a frank discussion about such matters without it turning puerile?  Is it her fault an article like that takes on a life of its own because of a couple of photos?  Is it her fault we still bring it up after three years, precisely because it remains unique?  Sure, there&#8217;s plenty of sex in games these days, but they&#8217;ve almost all focused on the &#8220;naughty titillation / sex fantasy&#8221; factor; few if any people have plumbed that particularly frank, unglamorous, straight-forward &#8220;sex + games&#8221; avenue since.</p>
<p>I can only guess at what Jane&#8217;s original intentions were.  But I know I wish it would&#8217;ve catalyzed more interesting discussions on the subject; and I&#8217;m disappointed - though hardly surprised -that it didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>Ferrous, I think it's both her fault and the community's, though mostly the latter.  But those photos... She had to know, to some extent, what sort of reaction she would get.

As for intentions on the Trance Vibe - thanks for the link.  That line, for better or for worse, wasn't originally mine, but Wired is actually planning on reprinting the piece, so I'll be sure the correction gets made.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ferrous, I think it&#8217;s both her fault and the community&#8217;s, though mostly the latter.  But those photos&#8230; She had to know, to some extent, what sort of reaction she would get.</p>
<p>As for intentions on the Trance Vibe - thanks for the link.  That line, for better or for worse, wasn&#8217;t originally mine, but Wired is actually planning on reprinting the piece, so I&#8217;ll be sure the correction gets made.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: FerrousBuller</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>FerrousBuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1052</guid>
		<description>"The Vibe piece may have been revolutionary for its time, as may have been GGA, but the attention it gets is far more centered around Jane herself as a toy than any sort of sexual liberation."

Right, and my point was: whose fault is that?  Jane's, for writing the piece in the first place?  Or the community as a whole, for fixating on it for so long?

I tend to blame the community more, for focusing on the most superficial elements of that article - "0MG T3H CR0TCH!!1!!" - rather than discussing other elements of the piece.  Granted, I doubt Jane was naive enough &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; to guess how the community would react to photos of her own crotch.  But should she then self-censor her piece just to avoid that extra attention and controversy?  The piece is frank and playful and revealing on more than one level; and the photos, while perhaps not necessary, fit in with that tone IMHO and aren't simply gratuitous.

Your off-the-cuff comments - e.g., about Jane being "played" by her boyfriend - are more interesting than 95% of the comments I've seen in the 3+ years since Jane published it.  I wish it had sparked more discussion along those lines.

Oh, and BTW, according to &lt;a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/play.html?pg=6" rel="nofollow"&gt;Mizuguchi&lt;/a&gt;, the Trance Vibrator wasn't intended as a sex toy.  So your quip, "If the vibe's creators had purer intentions, the world will never know," while amusing, is a little inaccurate, because he does claim to have had purer intentions.  :-)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Vibe piece may have been revolutionary for its time, as may have been GGA, but the attention it gets is far more centered around Jane herself as a toy than any sort of sexual liberation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Right, and my point was: whose fault is that?  Jane&#8217;s, for writing the piece in the first place?  Or the community as a whole, for fixating on it for so long?</p>
<p>I tend to blame the community more, for focusing on the most superficial elements of that article - &#8220;0MG T3H CR0TCH!!1!!&#8221; - rather than discussing other elements of the piece.  Granted, I doubt Jane was naive enough <b>not</b> to guess how the community would react to photos of her own crotch.  But should she then self-censor her piece just to avoid that extra attention and controversy?  The piece is frank and playful and revealing on more than one level; and the photos, while perhaps not necessary, fit in with that tone IMHO and aren&#8217;t simply gratuitous.</p>
<p>Your off-the-cuff comments - e.g., about Jane being &#8220;played&#8221; by her boyfriend - are more interesting than 95% of the comments I&#8217;ve seen in the 3+ years since Jane published it.  I wish it had sparked more discussion along those lines.</p>
<p>Oh, and BTW, according to <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/play.html?pg=6" rel="nofollow">Mizuguchi</a>, the Trance Vibrator wasn&#8217;t intended as a sex toy.  So your quip, &#8220;If the vibe&#8217;s creators had purer intentions, the world will never know,&#8221; while amusing, is a little inaccurate, because he does claim to have had purer intentions.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1051</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1051</guid>
		<description>Hey, I'm not going to argue with you on the joystick/penis thing.  It's just one more thing that, if I had said it, someone would have called me a man-hating weirdo for :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m not going to argue with you on the joystick/penis thing.  It&#8217;s just one more thing that, if I had said it, someone would have called me a man-hating weirdo for :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Brummbar</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1046</link>
		<dc:creator>Brummbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1046</guid>
		<description>That's not entirely a joke. Perhaps I'm just a pervert - ok, I am - but I can't be the only person who's noticed how similar holding a joystick is to, well, holding that other thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not entirely a joke. Perhaps I&#8217;m just a pervert - ok, I am - but I can&#8217;t be the only person who&#8217;s noticed how similar holding a joystick is to, well, holding that other thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Brummbar</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator>Brummbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1045</guid>
		<description>"Had that been a man with a vibrator between his legs, this would be a very different story."

Exactly; we're BORN with game controllers, so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Had that been a man with a vibrator between his legs, this would be a very different story.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly; we&#8217;re BORN with game controllers, so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1042</guid>
		<description>No worries, Brummbar, I'm enjoying this :-).

Ah yes, me, objective.  Chuckle, chuckle.  That's my professional statement, and I'm sticking to it.

Seriously though, all thoughts on Jane as a person aside (because, honestly, I can't claim to know her at all as a person) I think she receives too much credit for her Trance Vibe piece, and for GGA as a whole.  The idea behind both is wonderful, but the result... not so much.  The Vibe piece may have been revolutionary for its time, as may have been GGA, but the attention it gets is far more centered around Jane herself as a toy than any sort of sexual liberation.  First of all, she's playing with her boyfriend (the one, literally, in control).  Secondly, the piece (and especially the photos) draws on male gamer attraction more than constructive rethinking.  Lastly, that piece has overshadowed other sexualizations of game peripherals since, simply because of slightly interesting pics.  Had that been a man with a vibrator between his legs, this would be a very different story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries, Brummbar, I&#8217;m enjoying this :-).</p>
<p>Ah yes, me, objective.  Chuckle, chuckle.  That&#8217;s my professional statement, and I&#8217;m sticking to it.</p>
<p>Seriously though, all thoughts on Jane as a person aside (because, honestly, I can&#8217;t claim to know her at all as a person) I think she receives too much credit for her Trance Vibe piece, and for GGA as a whole.  The idea behind both is wonderful, but the result&#8230; not so much.  The Vibe piece may have been revolutionary for its time, as may have been GGA, but the attention it gets is far more centered around Jane herself as a toy than any sort of sexual liberation.  First of all, she&#8217;s playing with her boyfriend (the one, literally, in control).  Secondly, the piece (and especially the photos) draws on male gamer attraction more than constructive rethinking.  Lastly, that piece has overshadowed other sexualizations of game peripherals since, simply because of slightly interesting pics.  Had that been a man with a vibrator between his legs, this would be a very different story.</p>
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		<title>By: Brummbar</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Brummbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2006/01/30/games-that-get-your-groove-on/#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>No, but I saw that EEGAH! movie with Richard Kiel and Arch Hall, Jr, and his desert buggy had tires filled with water. So there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but I saw that EEGAH! movie with Richard Kiel and Arch Hall, Jr, and his desert buggy had tires filled with water. So there.</p>
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