Comments on: I Have Fallen in Love

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:54:13 +0000

James, I hear you on the number stuff - totally not my scene, so I barely know anything about it. My guess though is that I wouldn’t want to know :-). Also, why do you think you find role-playing in online formats fun, but not in real life?

By: James Schend

James Schend — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:14:53 +0000

Except the PVP servers don’t have any RP either. I just don’t see the point of playing a “role-playing” game if you’re not playing a role… without playing a role, it just becomes a boring game of numbers. (Do I wear the +5str and +10int robes or the +10dex and +7cha cloak? Answer: WHO CARES?)

Sorry, I get bitter, but some of the people I know who still play WOW actually spend hours and hours talking about this stuff. It’s all numbers and more numbers, and boring as hell. They’re wasting their free time doing math equations.

How about I play a MUD where the people understand that a story is about 10,000 times more interesting than adding up numbers all day, *and* I can combat people if it comes to that?

Bonnie: No I don’t RP in real life. I don’t really understand the appeal of that, to be honest.

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:38:05 +0000

Hey James, if the WOW AI isn’t good enough for you, play on a PVP server. You won’t have to worry about killing the same dumb AI enemies there, I assure you.

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:05:29 +0000

Out of curiousity, do you role play in real life? I’m not so much a fan, but I know a lot of LARPers. I tried it once, but the thing that really threw me off about it is exactly the thing you’re talking about, the willingness to be not you, but another character. Not that I’m saying it’s a bad thing, but again it’s definitely easier (and less mentally wearing) to be yourself, and not someone else.

By: James Schend

James Schend — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:54:47 +0000

It’s hard to justify a game with “role play” in the name which doesn’t actually involve any actual playing of roles. I guess the real shame is that the term “role play” has been more strongly linked with the “make your numbers all get higher” genre of videogames, and not with games that actually involve playing a role. (In fact, Adventure games are better “role play” games than most RPGs. Go figure.)

Idiots is probably an unfair and wrong term. :) But then again, we’re talking about a community that can be endlessly entertained with tediously killing the same dumb AI enemies over and over again. (And yes WOW has a good low-level game, but it quickly turns into killing the same dumb AI enemies over and over again.)

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:45:59 +0000

James, I hear you, but I wonder why you say MMO players are stupid just because they take a different approach than MUD players. I understand that perhaps the MUD approach is more complex, and maybe even more interesting, but I would still say to each his own. Keep in mind too that, for a lot of gamers, MMO’s are moreaccessible/understandable initially than MUD’s, simply because they offer a less jarring experience by providing visual-represented landscapes and avatars.

By: James Schend

James Schend — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:57:47 +0000

Grah, typos. That last sentence should read:

I quit because apparently nobody in the MMO world knows what "role play" means, and Blizzard certainly wasn't enforcing any of their RP rules on that server.

The MUD world is, generally, quite savvy about the whole thing.

By: James Schend

James Schend — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:55:33 +0000

And I’m not denying that there are probably a good amount of male players out there that actually do pretend to be females for various reasons. But I think that it’s a lot fewer people than most people assume.

(I played a female night elf on a WOW RP server for a few months, partly because of the ass issue raised above, and joined a guild. During that period, on the OOC guild channel, I just didn’t specifically state whether I was male and female and nobody asked… given, the guild was probably a dozen times more mature than the average MMO guild. While In Character, of course, I played a female night elf. I quit because apparently nobody in the MUD world knows what “role play” means, and Blizzard certainly wasn’t enforcing any of their RP rules on that server.)

By: James Schend

James Schend — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:49:04 +0000

I take on the role of a female when I’m playing a role-playing game with a female character. For instance, I play a MUD with a female elven character and I play her as a female and an elf to the best of my ability. However, on the OOC channels, I never claim to *be* female and generally in the MUD universe (which is about 40,000 times more mature than the MMO universe ever will be) it doesn’t matter what sex the player is, only how good their RP is.

Now if I take this same attitude and transfer it to the MMO community, where people show little distinction between “me” and “my character,” and there are no OOC channels, then you’d assume I was being a “MMO transvestite.” Does that mean I am? Or simply that MMOs usually don’t have Out Of Character channels to talk on?

It’s the same as a male novelist writing a novel with a female character in it. He’s not claiming to be that character, or a female, he’s just playing the role to the best of his ability.

If anything, this whole discussion boils down to, “why are people on MMO games such idiots compared to other role playing games?”

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:53:57 +0000

Matt, you never cease to make me smile. Personally, I couldn’t agree with you more. (And seriously, all my gay male friends say guys give much better head. I guess, I don’t know, they know the feeling :-).)

But James and Geoff, your points are valid too - and actually quite common. You’ll especially hear this a lot in forums (Though I’d like to say, not that I don’t totally believe you and respect your approach, that if you did in some way feel, as Dibbell puts it so concisely in My Tiny Life, “pretty” when you play as a girl, but are afraid someone will call you “homos,” set your worries aside. It won’t happen here. Their ass would be gone so fast…)

James, it’s especially interesting to hear you say you’re not trying to identify as female. You might be surprised to hear though that there are a lot of female-presenting male gamers out there who do take on the role of a woman when they play. Just saying it’s good to keep an open mind…