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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;La Belle et La BÃƒ ªte&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 03:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-394</guid>
		<description>MD^2 - interesting point about the "feeling" behind female gendered words in romantic languages.  I'm not sure about Russian, but in French there's no neuter, so, as you say, the masculine becomes the neutral choice.  It seems that feminization, therefore, is always something special; it indicates a particularly strong sentiment... whatever that sentiment happens to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MD^2 - interesting point about the &#8220;feeling&#8221; behind female gendered words in romantic languages.  I&#8217;m not sure about Russian, but in French there&#8217;s no neuter, so, as you say, the masculine becomes the neutral choice.  It seems that feminization, therefore, is always something special; it indicates a particularly strong sentiment&#8230; whatever that sentiment happens to be.</p>
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		<title>By: MDÃ‚Â²</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>MDÃ‚Â²</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2005 01:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-390</guid>
		<description>"That which is outside of society is female; that which is female is outside of society."

But at the same time, there's always that reccuring image of female as the foundation of society. Think in Gilgamesh the relationship between Enkidu and the priestess.  It's not necessary " the gentile feminine and the violent masculine " which are depicted here, but asocial brute strengh and socializing power.
Foundation isn't the right word. Medium. Females as the choice medium of society. The ambiguity of the word here is just perfect.
What a programming we've subjected ourselves to !

Oh, and on a linguistical side-note, in french, and in most languages where masculine/feminine has meaning, you'll find that masculine is more akin to neutral, while feminine holds feelings (whether it is positive or negative, you'll find more insults in feminine forms, but also more words implying affection. Russian is another perfect exemple.)
Make of this what you will, but I find it meaningful. Now if only I knew what the meaning was...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That which is outside of society is female; that which is female is outside of society.&#8221;</p>
<p>But at the same time, there&#8217;s always that reccuring image of female as the foundation of society. Think in Gilgamesh the relationship between Enkidu and the priestess.  It&#8217;s not necessary &#8221; the gentile feminine and the violent masculine &#8221; which are depicted here, but asocial brute strengh and socializing power.<br />
Foundation isn&#8217;t the right word. Medium. Females as the choice medium of society. The ambiguity of the word here is just perfect.<br />
What a programming we&#8217;ve subjected ourselves to !</p>
<p>Oh, and on a linguistical side-note, in french, and in most languages where masculine/feminine has meaning, you&#8217;ll find that masculine is more akin to neutral, while feminine holds feelings (whether it is positive or negative, you&#8217;ll find more insults in feminine forms, but also more words implying affection. Russian is another perfect exemple.)<br />
Make of this what you will, but I find it meaningful. Now if only I knew what the meaning was&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dugan</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dugan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 18:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-382</guid>
		<description>I don't mean Fear and Loathing in particular, but the whole attitude of playing outside of the bounds of society, which could underlay a whole variety of verbs and dynamics. Belle in Beauty and the Beast, or at least the Disney version, fits this mold in a different way than Hunter Thompson, but the spirit is the same. As Austin Powers said, its freedom baby! 

     Most (single-player) games we've seen have set-up the conflict by putting the player in the role of an entity which is outside the system. So far these conflicts have been moslty concerned with violence, but think about it: Mario 2 has the characters descending into a dream world, GTA has the player coming home or escaping from prison or entering a new town to take it over, Doom has the player invading the abatoires of hell, even The Sims is a sort of post-modern take on suburban materialism and "keeping up with the Joneses". All these games set-up a system and demand the player rise to the challenge of these systems, it makes sense that the extraneous narrative frame the conflict like-wise. As we move into gameplay in which narrative isn't extraneous, it will make sense to test the boundaries of the gameplay with similar tropes, but extended into the realm of the social symbolic. 

    Some Western writer once said theres only two basic types of stories, "the hero's journey" and "stranger comes to town". I'm not a big fan of structuralist theory, but from a systems building standpoint that appraisal makes sense.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mean Fear and Loathing in particular, but the whole attitude of playing outside of the bounds of society, which could underlay a whole variety of verbs and dynamics. Belle in Beauty and the Beast, or at least the Disney version, fits this mold in a different way than Hunter Thompson, but the spirit is the same. As Austin Powers said, its freedom baby! </p>
<p>     Most (single-player) games we&#8217;ve seen have set-up the conflict by putting the player in the role of an entity which is outside the system. So far these conflicts have been moslty concerned with violence, but think about it: Mario 2 has the characters descending into a dream world, GTA has the player coming home or escaping from prison or entering a new town to take it over, Doom has the player invading the abatoires of hell, even The Sims is a sort of post-modern take on suburban materialism and &#8220;keeping up with the Joneses&#8221;. All these games set-up a system and demand the player rise to the challenge of these systems, it makes sense that the extraneous narrative frame the conflict like-wise. As we move into gameplay in which narrative isn&#8217;t extraneous, it will make sense to test the boundaries of the gameplay with similar tropes, but extended into the realm of the social symbolic. </p>
<p>    Some Western writer once said theres only two basic types of stories, &#8220;the hero&#8217;s journey&#8221; and &#8220;stranger comes to town&#8221;. I&#8217;m not a big fan of structuralist theory, but from a systems building standpoint that appraisal makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-377</guid>
		<description>In what way are you envisioning Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?  I've seen the film, but I don't quite see the connection to game storybuilding.  But I'd love to be informed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what way are you envisioning Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?  I&#8217;ve seen the film, but I don&#8217;t quite see the connection to game storybuilding.  But I&#8217;d love to be informed!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dugan</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dugan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 01:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-376</guid>
		<description>That makes sense, likewise Hunter Thompson in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" (the film adaptation of which features that quote at its outset) escapes the responsibility of being a man in society by making a total drug fiend of himself. 

Social challenge is the way of the future for games, its the way games will appeal to women, men, older folks, casual gamers, non-gamers, maybe even figity politicians. A major theme I want to explore in my storybuilding is letting the player play outside the conventions of normal social situations. GTA does this in a shallow way, but I'm thinking more Fear and Loathing than Goodfellas. 

I think your ticket to making titles which play with sexuality and gender roles is along similar lines. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes sense, likewise Hunter Thompson in &#8220;Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas&#8221; (the film adaptation of which features that quote at its outset) escapes the responsibility of being a man in society by making a total drug fiend of himself. </p>
<p>Social challenge is the way of the future for games, its the way games will appeal to women, men, older folks, casual gamers, non-gamers, maybe even figity politicians. A major theme I want to explore in my storybuilding is letting the player play outside the conventions of normal social situations. GTA does this in a shallow way, but I&#8217;m thinking more Fear and Loathing than Goodfellas. </p>
<p>I think your ticket to making titles which play with sexuality and gender roles is along similar lines.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-373</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-373</guid>
		<description>I agree with you as far as being a "man" - that that is meant to imply being "human".  But when you transfer that do being being a monster to avoid being a "woman", I think it comes to me something different - that being a monster lets you out of the worries, not of humanity itself, but of the social construction of acceptable womanhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you as far as being a &#8220;man&#8221; - that that is meant to imply being &#8220;human&#8221;.  But when you transfer that do being being a monster to avoid being a &#8220;woman&#8221;, I think it comes to me something different - that being a monster lets you out of the worries, not of humanity itself, but of the social construction of acceptable womanhood.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dugan</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dugan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-372</guid>
		<description>Nice way to penetrate the semantic. Maybe by "man" Robert Johnson meant "human" in the general sense that people say "mankind" to mean "humanity". I think what the fairytale and Dr. Johnson are both getting at is that, no matter who you are, being human means confronting the monstrosity within first and foremost. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice way to penetrate the semantic. Maybe by &#8220;man&#8221; Robert Johnson meant &#8220;human&#8221; in the general sense that people say &#8220;mankind&#8221; to mean &#8220;humanity&#8221;. I think what the fairytale and Dr. Johnson are both getting at is that, no matter who you are, being human means confronting the monstrosity within first and foremost.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-369</guid>
		<description>Ah, but what does it mean to be a "man" or a "woman" in the first place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, but what does it mean to be a &#8220;man&#8221; or a &#8220;woman&#8221; in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dugan</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dugan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/11/02/la-belle-et-la-bete/#comment-362</guid>
		<description>"He who makes of himself a monster avoids the pain of being a man."
Robert Johnson said that, I'm not sure if it works directly the same way for women. Maybe is more like "she who tames the monster avoids the pain of being a woman", which would fit in with the Belle a la Bete. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He who makes of himself a monster avoids the pain of being a man.&#8221;<br />
Robert Johnson said that, I&#8217;m not sure if it works directly the same way for women. Maybe is more like &#8220;she who tames the monster avoids the pain of being a woman&#8221;, which would fit in with the Belle a la Bete.</p>
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