<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.1" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: We Are Not &#8220;The Rest of Us&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Bonifacius</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonifacius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1989</guid>
		<description>Great article. I am just sad I dont know how to reply properly, though, since I want to show my appreciation like many other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. I am just sad I dont know how to reply properly, though, since I want to show my appreciation like many other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-232</guid>
		<description>I hear what you're saying about censhorship, but that doesn't make them communist, it makes them fascist, at least in a sense.  And when you say "best" product, you get at the heart of the issue: what defines best?  It's not just quality, otherwise we'd be looking at a whole different market economy.  Price is a major factor in a capitalist society of determining "goodness".  Anyways, this is probably not the right place for a debate over politics/economics, so I for one am willing to shake hands :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear what you&#8217;re saying about censhorship, but that doesn&#8217;t make them communist, it makes them fascist, at least in a sense.  And when you say &#8220;best&#8221; product, you get at the heart of the issue: what defines best?  It&#8217;s not just quality, otherwise we&#8217;d be looking at a whole different market economy.  Price is a major factor in a capitalist society of determining &#8220;goodness&#8221;.  Anyways, this is probably not the right place for a debate over politics/economics, so I for one am willing to shake hands :-).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Schend</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>James Schend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-231</guid>
		<description>As long as they continue to censor their own people, and continue to attempt to firewall their entire nation from the truth on the Internet, they're "communism" in the negative sense, regardless of how people there buy their groceries.

The point of capitalism is that the *best* product succeeds, not the cheapest.  Sometimes it works; like with Apple's iPod.  Sometimes, it doesn't; like with pretty much everything sold at Wal-Mart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as they continue to censor their own people, and continue to attempt to firewall their entire nation from the truth on the Internet, they&#8217;re &#8220;communism&#8221; in the negative sense, regardless of how people there buy their groceries.</p>
<p>The point of capitalism is that the *best* product succeeds, not the cheapest.  Sometimes it works; like with Apple&#8217;s iPod.  Sometimes, it doesn&#8217;t; like with pretty much everything sold at Wal-Mart.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Brett, I hear what you're saying, and I think the movie comparison is a good one.  Still, the switchover is a delicate time.  It's hard to tell whether constructive niche markets will develop within the expanding industry, or whether the whole of gaming will lose its individual flavor to the norm...

James, no one's calling you "one of them" - at least not me.  Party lines are counter-productive, and I have no doubt that you as an individual have complicated views and cannot be pigeon-holed due to any particular belief.  With that said, your argument does confuse me a little.  You seem to be against that Walmart approach, but Walmart in many ways defines the American economy, even America itself, and to go against the economics of one and not the other seems contradictory.  Also, you say you're doing your part for your country, as opposed to all those Americans who are helped China become a superpower.  What's wrong with China becoming a superpower?  I know, a lot of Americans go up in arms because they're "communist" - but trust me, that "communism" is as capitalist as they come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, I hear what you&#8217;re saying, and I think the movie comparison is a good one.  Still, the switchover is a delicate time.  It&#8217;s hard to tell whether constructive niche markets will develop within the expanding industry, or whether the whole of gaming will lose its individual flavor to the norm&#8230;</p>
<p>James, no one&#8217;s calling you &#8220;one of them&#8221; - at least not me.  Party lines are counter-productive, and I have no doubt that you as an individual have complicated views and cannot be pigeon-holed due to any particular belief.  With that said, your argument does confuse me a little.  You seem to be against that Walmart approach, but Walmart in many ways defines the American economy, even America itself, and to go against the economics of one and not the other seems contradictory.  Also, you say you&#8217;re doing your part for your country, as opposed to all those Americans who are helped China become a superpower.  What&#8217;s wrong with China becoming a superpower?  I know, a lot of Americans go up in arms because they&#8217;re &#8220;communist&#8221; - but trust me, that &#8220;communism&#8221; is as capitalist as they come.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Schend</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>James Schend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-226</guid>
		<description>&#62;It&apos;s assembled in Mexico and Hungary, with most components made in Pacific rim nations like Singapore. YOU LOSE AT CAPITALISM.

I never said it was built in the US.  I own a Chrysler car that was built in Mexico, also.  I said it was built by a US company.

Look at it this way:  Say Microsoft has 5,000 employees in the US and 50 in Japan.  Let's say that Sony has 50 employees in the US and 5,000 in Japan.  Given that the manufactoring costs will go to Mexico/Korea/Taiwan/where ever, which console purchase will provide more capital to American companies?  Even if the consider payroll *alone*, Microsoft is the clear winner.

But also, Japan isn't anything to worry about.  What I worry about more is how the US, full of Wal-Mart shoppers who'll buy the cheapest product available regardless of quality, is basically funding China's development and eventual rise to *the* world superpower.  When China's there in thirty years, at least I can look back and say, "I did what I could do to support my homeland."

Of course, regardless of how I feel about politics, or why I do it, "buying American" is a Republican/Conservative term and therefore on the Internet I'm one of "them."  Because it's a lot easier to classify people into tight little groups than to consider, hey, maybe I'm *for* unions and environmentalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;It&apos;s assembled in Mexico and Hungary, with most components made in Pacific rim nations like Singapore. YOU LOSE AT CAPITALISM.</p>
<p>I never said it was built in the US.  I own a Chrysler car that was built in Mexico, also.  I said it was built by a US company.</p>
<p>Look at it this way:  Say Microsoft has 5,000 employees in the US and 50 in Japan.  Let&#8217;s say that Sony has 50 employees in the US and 5,000 in Japan.  Given that the manufactoring costs will go to Mexico/Korea/Taiwan/where ever, which console purchase will provide more capital to American companies?  Even if the consider payroll *alone*, Microsoft is the clear winner.</p>
<p>But also, Japan isn&#8217;t anything to worry about.  What I worry about more is how the US, full of Wal-Mart shoppers who&#8217;ll buy the cheapest product available regardless of quality, is basically funding China&#8217;s development and eventual rise to *the* world superpower.  When China&#8217;s there in thirty years, at least I can look back and say, &#8220;I did what I could do to support my homeland.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, regardless of how I feel about politics, or why I do it, &#8220;buying American&#8221; is a Republican/Conservative term and therefore on the Internet I&#8217;m one of &#8220;them.&#8221;  Because it&#8217;s a lot easier to classify people into tight little groups than to consider, hey, maybe I&#8217;m *for* unions and environmentalism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brett Douville</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Douville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;because it&apos;s painful to see something important to you [become] so mass culture&lt;/i&gt;

I hear you. On the other hand, it seems like growing the market substantially makes more room for niche games. I actually think something like &lt;i&gt;Beyond Good and Evil&lt;/i&gt; would have found a bigger market if we actually were able to reach the same size market (in numbers, not in dollars) that movies do. It was a high quality game that got good word-of-mouth. But when only a few of the people who you know (outside of work, in my case) own consoles, that word-of-mouth doesn't go all that far.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>because it&apos;s painful to see something important to you [become] so mass culture</i></p>
<p>I hear you. On the other hand, it seems like growing the market substantially makes more room for niche games. I actually think something like <i>Beyond Good and Evil</i> would have found a bigger market if we actually were able to reach the same size market (in numbers, not in dollars) that movies do. It was a high quality game that got good word-of-mouth. But when only a few of the people who you know (outside of work, in my case) own consoles, that word-of-mouth doesn&#8217;t go all that far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chmmr</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>chmmr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>"at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that&apos;s made by an American company"

It's assembled in Mexico and Hungary, with most components made in Pacific rim nations like Singapore.  YOU LOSE AT CAPITALISM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that&apos;s made by an American company&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s assembled in Mexico and Hungary, with most components made in Pacific rim nations like Singapore.  YOU LOSE AT CAPITALISM.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I imagine they just wanted to &#34;" let&apos;s be honest &#34;" [i]fool[/i] some literate, but unknowledgeable NYTimes readers.&lt;/i&gt;
I totally agree with you. That's part of the thing that bugs me so much.  I'm a lit. student, somewhat involved in a literary community, and I know if this runs in the times, then a large portion of the supposedly intellectual world takes it at point blank and walks away.  Gaming needs these people to be interested in us apart from the stereotypes they already have, and pieces like this aren't helping.

Jenny, you're my new best friend.  No, seriously, I obviously couldn't 
agree with you more.

&lt;i&gt;Im so glad someone finally said it, we dont want to be mainstream&#34;¦.we dont want it in a big way. Most of you hardcore gamers are extreme counterculture advocates in many cases. &lt;/i&gt;
Yeah, I feel myself struggle with that a lot.  Personally, I want games to be recognized as an art form, and that perhaps take general recognition.  But, some part of me is also exclusionary - as a writer, because I can't stand the idea of losing gaming culture to the norm, as a person, because it's painful to see something important to you because so mass culture.

&lt;i&gt;I prefer the Xbox because I like to buy American and, at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that&apos;s made by an American company. I&apos;m proud of that, and I hope it slaughters Sony and Nintendo &lt;/i&gt;
Ah, we can't be friends :-)!  I have to admit, on a personal level, I definitely disagree with you.  But, I also admit, I'm politically quite liberal, and not the kind of person who will ever aim for a product just because it's made in the U.S. of A.  But, too each his own.  I mean that sincerely.  And as someone interested in the mentality and purchasing power of American gamers, I find your approach fascinating :-).

As for making sequels because they sell, I think the answer is yes and no.  I'd recommend a recent Escapist article, "Death to the Games Industry, Long Live Games".  Free markets are one thing, but advertising has a lot to do with it, and when publishers only put big bucks into advertising sequels (i.e. game their sure will sell) it's make the whole creative atmosphere stagnant.  Again, a question of whether big business give enough of a damn to take a risk on art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I imagine they just wanted to &quot;&#8221; let&apos;s be honest &quot;&#8221; [i]fool[/i] some literate, but unknowledgeable NYTimes readers.</i><br />
I totally agree with you. That&#8217;s part of the thing that bugs me so much.  I&#8217;m a lit. student, somewhat involved in a literary community, and I know if this runs in the times, then a large portion of the supposedly intellectual world takes it at point blank and walks away.  Gaming needs these people to be interested in us apart from the stereotypes they already have, and pieces like this aren&#8217;t helping.</p>
<p>Jenny, you&#8217;re my new best friend.  No, seriously, I obviously couldn&#8217;t<br />
agree with you more.</p>
<p><i>Im so glad someone finally said it, we dont want to be mainstream&quot;¦.we dont want it in a big way. Most of you hardcore gamers are extreme counterculture advocates in many cases. </i><br />
Yeah, I feel myself struggle with that a lot.  Personally, I want games to be recognized as an art form, and that perhaps take general recognition.  But, some part of me is also exclusionary - as a writer, because I can&#8217;t stand the idea of losing gaming culture to the norm, as a person, because it&#8217;s painful to see something important to you because so mass culture.</p>
<p><i>I prefer the Xbox because I like to buy American and, at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that&apos;s made by an American company. I&apos;m proud of that, and I hope it slaughters Sony and Nintendo </i><br />
Ah, we can&#8217;t be friends :-)!  I have to admit, on a personal level, I definitely disagree with you.  But, I also admit, I&#8217;m politically quite liberal, and not the kind of person who will ever aim for a product just because it&#8217;s made in the U.S. of A.  But, too each his own.  I mean that sincerely.  And as someone interested in the mentality and purchasing power of American gamers, I find your approach fascinating :-).</p>
<p>As for making sequels because they sell, I think the answer is yes and no.  I&#8217;d recommend a recent Escapist article, &#8220;Death to the Games Industry, Long Live Games&#8221;.  Free markets are one thing, but advertising has a lot to do with it, and when publishers only put big bucks into advertising sequels (i.e. game their sure will sell) it&#8217;s make the whole creative atmosphere stagnant.  Again, a question of whether big business give enough of a damn to take a risk on art.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Jon Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Jon Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-220</guid>
		<description>James: The font sizes for comments have been adjusted accordingly.  In the future, please e-mail me at &lt;a href="mailto:ScottSiegel@teSticleSgo.net" rel="nofollow"&gt;ScottSiegel@teSticleSgo.net&lt;/a&gt; with any web-related issues.  Also, your e-mail address is never published publicly on the blog, and is only accessible by myself or Bonnie.  Including it would allow us to contact you directly about such issues, instead of having to take up comment-space with unrelated tech stuff.  Just something to consider.  -sj </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James: The font sizes for comments have been adjusted accordingly.  In the future, please e-mail me at <a href="mailto:ScottSiegel@teSticleSgo.net" rel="nofollow">ScottSiegel@teSticleSgo.net</a> with any web-related issues.  Also, your e-mail address is never published publicly on the blog, and is only accessible by myself or Bonnie.  Including it would allow us to contact you directly about such issues, instead of having to take up comment-space with unrelated tech stuff.  Just something to consider.  -sj</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Schend</title>
		<link>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>James Schend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.heroine-sheik.com/2005/10/12/we-are-not-the-rest-of-us/#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Few replies:

1) Microsoft's Xbox is a long-term investment, not a short-term investment.  They said from the very beginning that they probably weren't going to make any profit in the first two generations of the machine... you can criticize them if you want, but the Xbox is actually doing better than Microsoft planned when they started it.

Also, I think Microsoft is aiming for an older average age than 17-24... I may be wrong.  But one of the earliest PC game series they made for Xbox is the MechWarrior series, and the MechWarrior series is famous for having probably the oldest fanbase of any game in history.  (I joined a clan at 22, and I was the youngest person in it by far.  Most players were in their 40s.)

Now for my unpopular opinion:  I prefer the Xbox because I like to buy American and, at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that's made by an American company.  I'm proud of that, and I hope it slaughters Sony and Nintendo in the next generation to put us back on top where we were during the Atari years.

Bonnie:  The reason there are so many sequels is because they sell.  Who here bought Beyond Good and Evil?  It's an excellent game, a cross between an adventure game and a platformer, and yet it barely sold enough to break even, much less make a profit.  Who here bought Scaler?  Another excellent original platformer game, and another marketplace failure.  There are a dozen other examples.  What you're seeing may be unfortunate, but all it is is the free market in action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Few replies:</p>
<p>1) Microsoft&#8217;s Xbox is a long-term investment, not a short-term investment.  They said from the very beginning that they probably weren&#8217;t going to make any profit in the first two generations of the machine&#8230; you can criticize them if you want, but the Xbox is actually doing better than Microsoft planned when they started it.</p>
<p>Also, I think Microsoft is aiming for an older average age than 17-24&#8230; I may be wrong.  But one of the earliest PC game series they made for Xbox is the MechWarrior series, and the MechWarrior series is famous for having probably the oldest fanbase of any game in history.  (I joined a clan at 22, and I was the youngest person in it by far.  Most players were in their 40s.)</p>
<p>Now for my unpopular opinion:  I prefer the Xbox because I like to buy American and, at the moment, the Xbox is the only game console that&#8217;s made by an American company.  I&#8217;m proud of that, and I hope it slaughters Sony and Nintendo in the next generation to put us back on top where we were during the Atari years.</p>
<p>Bonnie:  The reason there are so many sequels is because they sell.  Who here bought Beyond Good and Evil?  It&#8217;s an excellent game, a cross between an adventure game and a platformer, and yet it barely sold enough to break even, much less make a profit.  Who here bought Scaler?  Another excellent original platformer game, and another marketplace failure.  There are a dozen other examples.  What you&#8217;re seeing may be unfortunate, but all it is is the free market in action.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
